...first criticism

[Cashew]

Okay, I haven't totally finished reading HoL, but frankly I'm wondering if I should finish it.
Now mind you, I thoroughly enjoy the book, but I just keep finding it harder and harder to wade through.
Does anyone feel ike this?

[heartbreak]

One day I was enjoying a peacefull hike through the woods, when I came upon a line of people standing before a fork in the path.
As we slowly advanced I saw up ahead the two paths....the one on the right led through tangled brush and was barely a path at all..the one to the left was paved coblestone. About all the people before me chose the path to the left. When it came time for me to choose I started pushing my way through the tangled brush and headed down the right hand path.
A voice called from behind, "Why are you going that way?" I turned and saw a women staring back at me.
"I've never been much of a lemming and I'm always up for a challenge," I replied, and continued on my way. A few minutes later I stopped again to allow her to catch up to me.

Our hike was long and hard, considering soon after it began leading up hill and kept getting steeper and steeper, our clothes soon became tattered and torn, and blood ran in thick lines upon our scratched arms. Hours passed, uncountable steps passed, and coversation passed. It was very surprising that we had so much in common. Our laughter and smiles kept us pressing onward. Our lips became cracked from lack of anything to drink, and our stomachs began to grumble from nothing to eat. The path ended in a clearing on top of a hill. I climbed a peach tree we found, and we devoured the juicy fruit. We walked hand in hand to the other side of the hill, and looking down we saw the end of the coblestone path. It came to a sewage plant. We laid down in the green grass, holding each other in our arms, and watched the sunset.

[RandomWildwood]

The short version of Oak's answer is this: Yes. But it will be worth it. images/smiles/icon_wink.gif And you are right, there are parts of the book that are difficult to get through. Some people don't like the chapter on Echoes, and I wasn't thrilled about the chapter on mineralology (fortunately, it was a short one [because Zampano lost a bunch of pages]) but it is worth reading through to the end because the end is actually well written. And besides, you gotta like a guy like Johnny even if he is crazy as a loon. Happy reading.

[Cashew]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sintina:
You know what?
There is a method to the madness, my friend.

Did you ever notice that you are frustrated and feel lost while reading this book?

There is a reason, I think. We are SUPPOSED to feel this way, my friend. Mark is a literary genius. Why do you think the book is getting such great reviews?

Mark wrote it the way that he wrote it because we, the readers, are supposed to feel the same things as the characters. We are supposed to be stressed and lost just like Navidson, he wants to make us that much a part of the book.

I know that's not much help, but when I got ticked off while reading, I remembered there was a reason for my lost-ness.

It made me feel better. images/smiles/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Oh, I figured out we're supposed to feel frustrated; it is s we feel the charas.(At least, that is how I took it)
But alas, I am the cliche-ish sort and, well, dammit, I want my shallow story line!
images/smiles/icon_wink.gif
I guess it's just cuz' I'm not used t reading all that complex stuff you "city-folk"(read: intelligent) are used to reading.
images/smiles/icon_sad.gif I want my cheesy and predictable romances back...
Sigh.
I make no sense.

[Sintina]

You know what?
There is a method to the madness, my friend.

Did you ever notice that you are frustrated and feel lost while reading this book?

There is a reason, I think. We are SUPPOSED to feel this way, my friend. Mark is a literary genius. Why do you think the book is getting such great reviews?

Mark wrote it the way that he wrote it because we, the readers, are supposed to feel the same things as the characters. We are supposed to be stressed and lost just like Navidson, he wants to make us that much a part of the book.

I know that's not much help, but when I got ticked off while reading, I remembered there was a reason for my lost-ness.

It made me feel better. images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[erin]

"Did you ever notice that you are frustrated and feel lost while reading this book?"


I agree. The characters we are dealing with are frustrated and confused. It helps you to identify with them if you are feeling the same way...

[Sintina]

"City Folk" ?!
**falls over laughing for a good five minutes**
Sir, I have lived in between two trees in a little town called:

Themiddleofnowhere, USA all my life.

But I understand how you feel. We all like stuff simple. We're only human! Why do you think we invented the computer. So basically, I'm saying you're not a weirdo. Everyone likes it easy.

**crude humor alert** Actually, most of us like it any way we can get it!

**crickets chirp**

Fine. I never claimed to be good at humor. images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

Anyway, hang in there and enjoy, or don't, it makes no real difference to anyone but yourself. images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[AmorVincitOmnia]

Mark wrote it the way that he wrote it because we, the readers, are supposed to feel the same things as the characters.

i completely agree. notice chapter XII (page 275 in my edition) where its written with a paragraph at most per page. i read in an interview with MZD that he wrote it this way so that the reader would most likely be frantically flipping through the pages, similar to the mood of the chapter. some of the words are written upside down and spaced out where youll have to turn the book upside down to comprehend some of it. it was meant to help you relate to the characters (says the interview).

[Kyem]

There does seem to be a great deal of psychological suggestion in the book. I can't rationionalize the fear I now experience in dark areas. It seemed as soon as he mentioned some hostile form may be lurking within the shadows, I began to question it too.

[fearful_syzygy]

MZD: [...] There's a complicated craftsmanship involved in controlling the viewer's perception. It's a craft where details count. One of my favorite stories concerns Orson Welle's unhappiness over the way the shadows looked in Citizen Kane. They kept shooting them but the results were always too flat or too gray or too dull. Welles finally found some velvet curtains and stuffed them into the shadows to give them a deeper, richer texture. Hardly noticeable but there nonetheless — communicating a quality nearly impossible to grasp intellectually but easily appreciated emotionally. (Critique, Vol. 44, No. 2, Winter, 2003 (http://markzdanielewski.info/mzd/critique.pdf), p. 119)

See also Roger Caillois's comments on the 'filledness' of darkness here (http://www.houseofleaves.com/forum/showthread.php?p=78765#post78765).


Edit: I feel I should append the rest of that MZD quote in relation to the original post of this thread:
'That's why my response to those readers who complain about being confused by the look of certain sections of House of Leaves is to gently tell them, "Don't worry, I'm just stuffing shadows."
I should say intellectual engagement has never been my primary goal. Important, but not primary. Rather I've always wanted to create scenes and scenarios that verge on the edge of specificity without crossing into identification, leaving enough room, so to speak, for the reader to participate and supply her own fears, his own anxieties, their own history and future.' (ibid.)

[po-m]

F_S, you always have the answers. :smile:

[The_key_looker]

npt at all, I was almost engrossed in the book as Jt was haha I never really got why.

[elmago]

MZD: [...] There's a complicated craftsmanship involved in controlling the viewer's perception. It's a craft where details count. One of my favorite stories concerns Orson Welle's unhappiness over the way the shadows looked in Citizen Kane. They kept shooting them but the results were always too flat or too gray or too dull. Welles finally found some velvet curtains and stuffed them into the shadows to give them a deeper, richer texture. Hardly noticeable but there nonetheless — communicating a quality nearly impossible to grasp intellectually but easily appreciated emotionally. (Critique, Vol. 44, No. 2, Winter, 2003 (http://markzdanielewski.info/mzd/critique.pdf), p. 119)

See also Roger Caillois's comments on the 'filledness' of darkness here (http://www.houseofleaves.com/forum/showthread.php?p=78765#post78765).


Edit: I feel I should append the rest of that MZD quote in relation to the original post of this thread:
'That's why my response to those readers who complain about being confused by the look of certain sections of <font color=#0C5FF0>House</font> of Leaves is to gently tell them, "Don't worry, I'm just stuffing shadows."
I should say intellectual engagement has never been my primary goal. Important, but not primary. Rather I've always wanted to create scenes and scenarios that verge on the edge of specificity without crossing into identification, leaving enough room, so to speak, for the reader to participate and supply her own fears, his own anxieties, their own history and future.' (ibid.)



Icidentally, I heard Barry Gifford say the same thing about shadows in a chat he gave in a film festival about three years ago, when someone asked for him to explain some confusing points of the plot of Lost Higway.

[Farehamer]

No no, you shouldn't read anymore. Close the book, and sell it.

Going to listen to me?

Doubt it, so why ask?

[lollipopstandoff]

Every time I eat fast food, I usually make a small meal at home afterward.

What I mean by that is anything that is easy and that you don't have to put much effort into might sustain you for a while, but soon it will only leave you feeling empty.

Keep pressing on! You won't regret it!!!!

[EriusTobin]

I know exactly that feeling. Especially the Holloway section of Chapter XIII (which has parts of it that were "burned"). Drove me NUTS. But it is worth it. And rainswept, that's completely true. There was a day that I didn't want to talk about it to anyone. It was almost painful. But now, I'm all over the internet, doing weird, crazy searches on the internet, and setting myself up for a second Exploration.

[heartbreak]

MZD: [...] There's a complicated craftsmanship involved in controlling the viewer's perception. It's a craft where details count. One of my favorite stories concerns Orson Welle's unhappiness over the way the shadows looked in Citizen Kane. They kept shooting them but the results were always too flat or too gray or too dull. Welles finally found some velvet curtains and stuffed them into the shadows to give them a deeper, richer texture. Hardly noticeable but there nonetheless — communicating a quality nearly impossible to grasp intellectually but easily appreciated emotionally. (Critique, Vol. 44, No. 2, Winter, 2003 (http://markzdanielewski.info/mzd/critique.pdf), p. 119)

See also Roger Caillois's comments on the 'filledness' of darkness here (http://www.houseofleaves.com/forum/showthread.php?p=78765#post78765).


Edit: I feel I should append the rest of that MZD quote in relation to the original post of this thread:
'That's why my response to those readers who complain about being confused by the look of certain sections of <font color=#0C5FF0>House</font> of Leaves is to gently tell them, "Don't worry, I'm just stuffing shadows."
I should say intellectual engagement has never been my primary goal. Important, but not primary. Rather I've always wanted to create scenes and scenarios that verge on the edge of specificity without crossing into identification, leaving enough room, so to speak, for the reader to participate and supply her own fears, his own anxieties, their own history and future.' (ibid.)


*bump*

[LJonesy]

Okay, I haven't totally finished reading HoL, but frankly I'm wondering if I should finish it.
Now mind you, I thoroughly enjoy the book, but I just keep finding it harder and harder to wade through.
Does anyone feel ike this?

On the contrary Cashew, i'm finding it rather easy to continue through the book. As i read any author, i begin to recognise and 'pick up' their writing style (understand it, find ease in reading it, maybe mimick a sentence or two but no more without my own mind kicking in again).

Although, i recently finished that Chapter where all the stuff was burnt out by ash and there was heaps of [ ] stuff going [ ]n in the Chap[ ]. That got really difficult at some points, but it was meant to do things like that, we were meant to provide our own context, add our own guesses and all that.

It's really up to you. "Warm up to it" is the phrase i use when it comes to books i don't like. A book i disliked reading previous to HoL was a book called "The Riddle" by Alison Croggon. Had some great ideas, but the methods of characterisation and progression of events simply didn't entertain me. At all. But in order to finish what i started, i picked up on the style and understood where the author was coming from.

But if you're anything like me, you'd end up skipping pages in HoL. I skimmed over sections in "The Riddle".

[Ellimist]

Okay, I haven't totally finished reading HoL, but frankly I'm wondering if I should finish it.
Now mind you, I thoroughly enjoy the book, but I just keep finding it harder and harder to wade through.
Does anyone feel ike this?
*AHEM*