About the title...

[mtvogel73]

Here's something that, for some reason, I can't figure out.. Perhaps I missed it in the book somewhere (not surprising if that's the case.. I skimmed over a bit of it)... But what exactly does "House of Leaves" mean? It's obviously metaphorical of something.. but what? That's the one thing I haven't been able to nail down..

Anyone have any input on this?

-Mike-

[Ardis_21]

As far as I know, no one knows for sure (except Mark Z.). My own thought on what it means is that it is a name for the Symbolic house; their problems, etc. Of course, on Haunted, the little girl does say, "How come it's a house of leaves?", so there may be some other meaning. But, that's how I take it for now.

[Bok]

Warning: spoiler ahead
In the Dutch translation, "House of Leaves" is translated as "Het Kaarten<font color="blue">huis</font>", which means as much as "<font color="blue">House</font> of Cards". So it looks like the translators interpreted it as describing a house that is barely stable. A small disruption can cause it to fall apart. In the end, both the <font color="blue">house</font> and the family fall apart, so this interpretation makes some sense.

Another possible explanation is that the book is built up of leaves of paper, and the complexity and architectural structure of it makes the book itself a <font color="blue">house</font>. So: <font color="blue">house</font> of leaves images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

The last option I considered is based on a different interpretaion of the word "leaves". This interpretation doesn't consider the leaves to be related to foliage or paper, but rather a derived form of the verb "leaving". Johnny's father left Johnny, former inhabitants left the <font color="blue">house</font>, the explorers leave eachother, etc. This explanation satisfies me the most. The only thing is that I don't know if this association makes sense to native-English-speaking people images/smiles/icon_confused.gif

[Edit: it should be possible to review your own post before posting. I keep correcting typo's images/smiles/icon_smile.gif ]

[ June 28, 2001: Message edited by: Bok ]

[mtvogel73]

<nod>
I actually read a review of the book (fantastic review, gave it an A rating) and they mention that the term "leaves" is represented in various meanings of the word.. Leaves as in the leaf of an expanding dining room table (metaphorical, I would guess of the house's expanding and shrinking properties), leaves of paper as in Zampano's scattered writings, etc. etc... The review also pertains to it similarly to your interpretation, in dealing with the individual problems that are unfolding with the characters. Which did ring true when I thought about it in that way.

I've begun reading the book through the second time and so far it's amazing what clues you pick up so much more clearly on the second time through. I'm hoping to catch more of the subtleties of the story this time.. in the references, in Johnny Truant's story, etc.

Anyhoo... just thought I'd share that of information I found on the subject of the book's title.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ardis_21:
As far as I know, no one knows for sure (except Mark Z.). My own thought on what it means is that it is a name for the Symbolic house; their problems, etc. Of course, on Haunted, the little girl does say, "How come it's a house of leaves?", so there may be some other meaning. But, that's how I take it for now.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[cloudsurfer]

Actually we do know for sure. In the appendix there is a poem, and here it is for all of you:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> (Untitled Fragment)

Little solace comes
to those who grieve
when thoughts keep drifting
as walls keep shifting
and this great blue world of ours
seems a house of leaves

moments before the wind.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can find the quote on page 563.

[jennifer may]

See also Footnote 318, page 350: "leaves of feeling"

(description of old love letters etc).

[Starling]

Here's what I think:

If you look at the title's literal meaning, it would be a house that's thinly constructed. Think of leaves and their properties. Leaves aren't sturdy and there are gaps that would let some light in but would obstruct your view. The people in the house have a limited view both of how the changes are happening and they are unable to see clearly all that's going on in their house. Leaves also help the tree process sunlight into nutrients via photosynthesis. The house feeds their psyche. Leaves also provide shade, in the same way the house shades much of what they think as they encounter all of its secrets as well as bringing forward things in their past, what has been shaded.

I also thought of alternate meanings for "leave", and how it applies to the title: the house makes people take leave of their senses, Johnny's mother leaving him and going into an institution, reality taking leave as the impossible happens.

I just started reading the book yesterday. I have read about 150 pages and because it's not a linear narrative I have not payed much attention to the sequence of events as much as sorting through all the layers in Zampado's manuscript and Johnny Truant's notes.

[kimlan]

Leaves also are made up of many tiny cells...one could think that there's a play off the word cells ..closed in..trapped. that might be streaching in a bit.

[alphan]

I think many of you are missing the simple meaning: Leaves change, so does the house, therefore it could be translated into House of changes!!
there you go images/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[ZenMonkey]

He's onto something there.......

[alphan]

hehe
It just came to me while I was working on my HoL project for English, makes a hell of a lotta sense to me; however, who knows what MZD was thinking? He could have meant it to mean any one of a hundred twisted things! man, what a genious though...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> "All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream."
-Edgar Allan Poe
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[ManiKatt]

How about "The House of Leaves" as "The Book of Changes"

[dorain]

He (MZD) told us at the HOL book talk thing the name can have different meanings depindig on the readers personalaty So we are all right images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif images/smiles/icon_razz.gif images/smiles/icon_cool.gif

[syrigmus]

well, doesn't it mention that the book navidson is reading is also "house of leaves." also, there is some mention of leaves being memories. my thought is that in the whalestoe letters, johnny's mother compares herself to a great tree whose roots bind the earth (or something to that effect). perhaps, this may a house built from the fallen leaves of his mother? images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Cruciphage]

The title obviously has many different meanings, many of which have been covered in this thread and "of Leaves." I don't think anyone has tried to do it here, but it would be a mistake to assume that the title has only one uniform meaning. No theory is really stretching it (even the "cells" one), because every one I've seen so far adds new depth to the title.

[suiiciide]

Maybe it's a house of leaves because it's about Zampano's leaves of paper, people leaving, leaves changing, and whatever other defintion of leaves combined together. The combinantion could be called a house since it contains, or houses, all of the seperate things.

[thicket]

What about the fact that it can also be construed as sheets of paper bound in a book.

[Zar23]

The book that Navy reads is the same length as HoL... a work within a work within itself. Pretty neat, eh?

-Zar

[Aeonflux]

I think I'd have to agree with True North on this title. In the book (i can't remember where though!) it says saomething about the leaves changing in the weather. HOUSE of leaves- like house of changing. Leaves never stay the same way, they are constantly changing. Just like the house is constantly shifting and changing.

[cloois]

Hi. i just found this site. i bought the book right when it came out and so i read it like a year and a half ago or something and haven't really considered it lately. right after i read it i checked the web for shite on it bc of the mention in the liner notes about its first appearing in bits and pieces on the web but back then there was nothing that i could find related at all, eventually this domain came up, but then they didn't really do anything with it for a while. well one of the things that i found when i was looking for things about it back then was a play called The House of Blue Leaves...which is obviously related somehow to this book by title, however i never found out any more about that play except that it has to do with people trying to achieve celebrity--which would certainly go along with navidson, but anyway....i bought this book as a present for my brother the other day, so i started thinking about it again and i noticed the thing about poe's cd on the back, which i still haven't listened to anything from, but i guess i'm rambling....sorry...
just thought this might be of interest if anyone hasn't pointed it out yet.

[Marxducky]

I take the simple approach. Being made of leaves the house is subject to forces which blow it around, constantly changing its configuration, making it larger, or smaller, wider, narrower, benign or malignant. We can't predict how the slightest wind, input or force will change its configuaration. We have no certainty about anything regarding this house of leaves.

[Zar23]

My suggestion: Get the HELL out of here now. It will consume your life... the only books that you will read will be HoL or HoL related... for some of us, that is. You will spend hours here and in devotion to the book that you could have spent drinking, doing drugs, or having sex. Instead, you merely read about them. It is too late for me and for many of us... but you still have hope.

-Zar

[barrybonifay]

First post, so forgive me if i'm reiterating something that's already been said.

i think it is terribly important that the house is on ash tree lane. the final page of the novel gives us a poem about yggdrasil, which we can gather from the text is some kind of mythic tree.
Norse mythology tells us that yggdrasil is the earth tree, the one thing that binds heaven, earth, and underworld into a coherent whole. Yggdrasil is the giver and nourisher of life. Yggdrsil is also usually considered to be an ash.
Ask, one of the two first humans was created from an ash. in addition it is in the ash tree, yggdrasil that two humans, lif and leifthrasir, will hide during ragnarok and will live on the tree's honeydew until it is safe to emerge and restart humanity.

yggdrasil is then a symbol of redemption/salvation. Navidson (and possibly johnny, zampano, and pelafina) disappear into the tree (a house of leaves) and are reborn by the experience.

thoughts?

[shever]

barrybonifay,

i don't ever remember seeing that mentioned on the board. it's an excellent point.

[endorphyne]

Wow. I disappear for a week or two, and things get really interesting around here.

There's another type of "Leaves" that I didn't see mentioned here.

What about "leaves of absence"? It seems that several of the characters in the book are taking those.

[ November 23, 2001: Message edited by: endorphyne ]

[alphan]

yes ive just returned after a long break from the forum and you are right endorphyne, many new and excellent points have come up- i especially like yours and barry's, yet again as dorain pointed out theyre all excellent! glad to be back again with my fellow HoL addicts images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> "Why does a man kill? He kills for food, and often there must be a beverage."
-Woody Allen
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[jackrcole]

im thinking about the yggdrasil.. im thinking about the house of leaves... thinking about navy's dream of a well where you dont know what will happen once you hit the point where it expands into infinity... a well like an upside down tree?... a house with a hallway like that well... like that tree... where you can either hit that blue light and fade away into happiness like navy or keep falling like holloway and tom....

[Pulseless]

just my own mention of a view of the title...its acronym is HoL, which could be pronounced "Hall", the connection there being obvious.

for that matter, it could be pronounced "Hole" as well(heh), as in that abyss Navidson encounters, as in that abyss we plummet into and hopefully through. sometimes it amazes me that this book actually stops somewhere at all.

yup. thassit.

[Nowt]

Well shit... Barry took my point. I just made the Yggdrasil connection today by a link to a beautiful site Icarus gave me on my topic (Pisces 2x), where it was said that the Yggdrasil tree is indeed an ash... there it is, I said to a fellow reader, and now wanted to make you happy with it. Also the ourobouros is mentioned on that link, an interesting symbol if you think of the pisces... let's go on exploring! images/smiles/icon_eek.gif

[sb]

just for the record, in Poe's CD we hear Mark and Poe's Dad talk about the similarity of a story with the architecture of a house.....'a house without that sence would not look like your house today'or something similar.

It seems obvious that MZD has been very thorough as regards the architecture of his house, it is a thorough and amazingly constructed story that has thousands of people trapped within its walls.

And that is where I think we are, we are trapped within the walls of his house much as Navy was trapped in that other house.

[bologna36]

I've been thinking about the title of this book recently, while at work. And it suddenly hit me. The leaves, I think, are definitely pages. The book's existance in every main character's life is what defines the horrors within it. First, of course, Zampano. The point that he finishes writing the book is the point that the horrors of his life finally reach their climax, and his life reaches its end. The reality of the house is at its peak when the leaves, or pages, are all finally together. In Johnny's life, it is pretty much the same. But rather than the horrors being the worst when the pages exist, for him, the more the pages are bound together, the more the random pieces of paper become leaves in the book, and the more the story and house exist for Johnny.

(spoiler warning)
But most importantly to the theory is the book's existance in Navidson's life. We first see it specifically mentioned, of course, at the end of the book. But I think it first appears very close to the beginning.

"'Hey, would you mind propping that open with something?' Navidson asks his brother.
Tom turns to Karen's shelves and reaches for the largest volume he can find. A novel. Just as with Karen, its removal causes an immediate domino effect. Only this time, as the books topple into each other, the last few do not stop at the wall as they had previously done but fall intead to the floor, revealing at least a foot between the end of the shelf and the plaster."

I would invite anyone in this forum to look at their bookshelves and find the biggest novel in them. Not the biggest book, necessarily, because textbooks tend to be pretty big, but in pure girth, the biggest *novel.* I'll admit, I have one bigger than House of Leaves. But only one, and it's barely any bigger. From my experience, if you own House of Leaves, it's probably the largest one in their collection. Which implies to me that the book Tom uses to prop the door open on page 40. And coincidentally (or maybe not coincidentally), the book's first mention in Navidson's life is the same moment that everyone sees for certain that the house is definitely changing size. The house is what it is because the pages (leaves) describing its existance exist within it.

The supernatural quality of the house only ceases to exist when Navidson reads and burns the final page of the book.

"...as he reaches the last few words, flames lick around his hands, ash peels off into the surrounding emptiness, and then as the fire retreats, dimming, its light suddenly spent, the book is gone leaving nothing behind but invisible traces already dismantled in the dark." On the next page, "Then (who knows how much later): I'm no longer sitting on anything. The slab, whatever it was, is gone. I'm floating or falling or I don't know what."

See, as the book is destroyed, it ends up "leaving nothing behind but invisible traces already dismantled in the dark." Which could mean it left no remnant of the book behind, or that it left *nothing* behind. No thing. The house (or at least, the physically impossible parts of it) no longer exists because the book no longer exists. The reason Navidson still floats in blackness instead of immediately returning to his yard is because of those invisible traces in his mind. The book still existed in his mind, until he vanishes" completely in the wings of his own wordless stanza." Until he goes mad with cold, shock, and finally fear, and the book disappears even from his own memory. When everything goes blank, and there is nothing more of the book in any way in Navidson's existance, Karen is able to find him, because the house instantly becomes nothing more than a normal house.

So, no matter who the character (or reader), the house's power only exists with it's pages. Even when the house is made of ash walls, it is made of the words on those leaves.

[malakite]

wow. that is a wonderful explanation. and it makes perfect sense, without being crazy sounding. i thought through the various internal references to the book and found something. not a deep revelation, just this:

it would seem that the house is destroyed when navidson burns it. however, to our horror, we find that not only has zampano returned it, and thus the house to existence, but the volume has already escaped to the world, through johnny, and his publication of, which is shown to be inevitable when he meets the man that has already read it.

[girl2]

woah! this is a good theory! i love it all!

but wait, if the book on the shelf was house of leaves, and it did start the whole thing, who wrote the first version? who created the house? pelafina?

[bologna36]

"We fearch for deere or other Game and alwayes there is nothing."
"...Bitter cold...terrible Place...It has been a week fince we haue fpied one living thing."
"The Wind makes a wicked found in the Woods...I fear much more the filence in here."
"Ftaires! We haue found ftaires!"

Not HoL in the form we, Zampano, Johnny, or Navidson would have originally seen it, but as I was saying, as the pages increase, the house's size increases. First there is no house, as far as anyone knows. Then, as the horrors of the storm take form on the pages of that journal, probably being written within a very close proximity to the house, the house begins to take the form of the horrors written in it. The cold, the sound, the nothing. It's obviously never a house in a really conventional sense, but rather, a house that builds itself to communicate those horrors. I don't really know where the book in the form we all see it came from, but I think it all started with those first few leaves of paper, and was turned into much more as time went on.

[fatwoul]

I have something i'd like to mention regarding Bologna36's cool explanation, which is the first one I have found so far capable of convincing me that Navy finished reading the book.
There's no need to shred it to pieces since it is just a thought, and no more provable than it is disprovable.

I looked at my bookshelves, and yes, the largest novel by a long way is House of Leaves (now that I have finally had it returned to me). However, as you also said, there are plenty of textbooks I found that were larger, together with a lot of photography/art books that are positively gigantic. It struck me that all the other photographers I know also have shelves filled with books of this kind, to the point that some of them have had to seperate their book collections (ie photography books etc in the study, novels and books of interest to the family in the lounge, and so on). Also, I don't know about anybody else, but I find that new books, and ones I use often, never earn themselves a shelf space since they are in constant use, suggesting this "large novel" could be an older book.

What I am getting at is that maybe the shelves were not Navy's books. Maybe they were all Karen's books, and perhaps the book he ended up reading had already been looked at by her.

I've often thought about how bookshelves can reflect a person's personality or mind.

Some people have expressed the idea that Karen could portray Pelafina, and that Pelafina could have written the whole thing. I'm not convinced by that yet, and am unsure whether I want to know, or whether it matters (to me HOL is a tour through the ideas it presents more than a whowroteit)
However, by considering that the large novel in question is HOL, belongs to Karen, and is on her bookshelf could in some way relate the way that HOL itself belongs to Pelafina, and is for her alone ("not for you", as we are told upon opening the book).

[ July 03, 2002: Message edited by: fatwoul ]

[Agrimorfee]

This would explain all the attention MZD (er, Zampano) pays towards that damned bookshelf early in The NR, and later when Karen gives up on the feng-shui methods.

[MassConfusion]

A few things on this topic:

1. bologna's theory is a force to be reckoned with, it does actually make the most sense to me. Especially the part where he said that the house grows as the book grows. This leads me to believe that as the book was written, the house grew more and more intense. As anyone can see, the book gets more and more hectic as the reader continues through the Navidson Record. The house grew and grew in strength and power until finally Navidson burned it's pages and destroyed it's hold on him. Zampano brought the house back to life with his little review, only not in it's reality, only in the readers' minds. Zampano obviously went insane with his "sytles of writings" (such as what on 432 and the like), up until the point of his death. Johnny became paranoid of his apartment shifting, even putting up rulers on the walls. Even the people on this forum, including myself, are altered by this book. This book has made me a little different, has made me search for a meaning, along with everyone else in this book. We keep the House alive in our continuing search of meaning of this book. This leads me to my second point...

2. House of Leaves I think means us. This book is the tree, we are it's leaves, changing, altering, discovering. We relate to each other and change out discoveries everytime we talk on this board. Johnny, Zampano, P., everyone in this book was changed in someway, making eahc person a leaf, all bound together by this one tree, this book, this house. I thinkl the title, as with most titles, encompasses the entity of this book, and MZD's purpose in making it, hence my description.

Perhaps I just confused a few people, and perhaps I'm stretching this a bit, but hey, I am MassConfusion, after all. images/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Hope this helps in the search.

[Neal Baker]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fatwoul:
What I am getting at is that maybe the shelves were not Navy's books. Maybe they were all Karen's books, and perhaps the book he ended up reading had already been looked at by her.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Going on your theory here, i pose an idea. When i look at my bookshelf, the thickest wolumes up there, are the ones that i have written myself. What if Karen wrote House Of Leaves? It may have been her journal.

[fatwoul]

I didn't want to say that for fear of a radical reaction, but yes I had been wondering about that - I was kind of pussy-footing around that suggestion when I was talking about Pelafina being the author and her being portrayed by Karen.

Following on from these thoughts about a journal, it would be interesting to look for evidence that she started writing it while she was away at the wedding, causing the existence of the cupboard when they return, for example.

Thanks for sticking your neck out there for me!

[ July 03, 2002: Message edited by: fatwoul ]

[zerolous]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bologna36:
... And coincidentally (or maybe not coincidentally), the book's first mention in Navidson's life is the same moment that everyone sees for certain that the house is definitely changing size. The house is what it is because the pages (leaves) describing its existance exist within it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Up to this point in the story the house is only 1/4 of an inch too big on the inside. I would like to make a case for the fact that until Karen builds the shelve, the book is probably still in a box. Let's not forget that the Navidson Record was originally conceived as a documentary about people moving into a house. So as a packed article the book could only have so much effect over its enviroment. But once Karen builds the book shelf and unpacks her books, we see this scene with Tom and the domino effect.

[destination713]

I think that you last two are a little behind there, that was gone over in the first few responces...but I enjoy insight about the title from the rest of you....I shared many of the same ideas, and can't help but think of the plethora of other meanings the title may hold.

[fatwoul]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by destination713:
...I think that you last two are a little behind there...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've gone back and looked and could not see any explicit mention of Karen's authorship in this respect.

Besides, considering I wrote that two months ago, I would say you're the one who's a little behind, my friend. images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[ September 17, 2002: Message edited by: fatwoul ]

[RighteousEgo]

what about the pygmies?


-practicing my right to push a post.

[bologna36]

As a quick addition to the only thread I seem to find myself coming back for every few months, but something that has implications throughout many other threads, has anyone thought at all about the seemingly innocent little comment by Leslie Stern, M.D. to Karen on page 362 in "What Some Have Thought?"

"But since you created this world I don't think it's unfair to ask why you were so drawn to those themes."

It seems rather unimportant in context, considering it just seems like yet another person who just thinks Karen is just a major part of the filmmaking team. But if you look closely, Stern doesn't say anything about making the FILM. Stern says that Karen created this world. Being the psychiatrist in this group, Leslie would be the one who would see Karen's psyche imprinted on the world. So perhaps it was Karen's words, expressing her fears and brought into that terrible place that brought the house to life.

[chinawhite]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by wsimike:
But what exactly does "House of Leaves" mean? It's obviously metaphorical of something.. but what? That's the one thing I haven't been able to nail down..

Anyone have any input on this?

Well. Page 563's untitled fragment says,

"Little solace comes
to tose who grieve
when thoughts keep shifting
and this great blue world of ours
seems a house of leaves

moments before the wind"


Maybe it's a metaphor for the impermanence of everything in life?

[chinawhite]

Damn. Should have read the whole thread before posting. Page 563's already been mentioned.

I ,too, thought of the title with 'leaves" meaning "leaving" as well. In the end, everyone leaves the house , Zampano leaves by dying as does Pelafina, and Johnny just disappears.

[zerolous]

The title has more meanings than Mr. T has gold chains. However, someone was just saying on a different thread, that house is imagery for a woman.

I think it is interesting to look at the title meaning "woman leaving", because that could relate to so many things in the book.

Not that this is the definative defenition, it has many and that is the point of it. I just thought this one was interesting.

[ianthebruce]

Don't forget the line from Haunted, "In this house of leaves we'll pray." A reference to religion?

[chinawhite]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ianthebruce:
Don't forget the line from Haunted, "In this house of leaves we'll pray." A reference to religion?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Could it be "prey"?

[ninziestar]

fall, yes.

I heard and audio interview, and it seemed like MZD agreed when the interviewer suggested that the house was composed of leaves, or sheets of paper. JT composed a book of the leaves Zampano left behind, creating the <font color="blue">house</blue>.

[fragmented]

"House of Leaves..." the leaves are the bindings of the book. it is really a house within the pages.

[Jazz613]

"<font color="#0000FF">House</font> of Leaves..." the leaves are the bindings of the book. it is really a <font color="#0000FF">House</font> within the pages.

That's what I always thought.

[fearful_syzygy]

Yes, a House of Leaves is a book. But it is not only a book.

[rextheovermind]

I'm sure MZD thought of all of these possible meanings to the title when he came up with it. Given his amazing use of word play and manipulation thoughtout the entire book, I've no doubt that he considered every aspect and meaning to the word "Leaves" as well as "House", which also has numerous interpretations based on personality. I'll even bet he considered the possible meanings of using the the word "of". Heck, go to dictionary.com and look up the word "of". It's got 21 different definitions, some of which I never even considered.

[fatwoul]

Yes, a <font color="#0000FF">House</font> of Leaves is a book. But it is not only a book.

Indeed. It is also a hedgehog's home, and a gardener's compost heap, from which the gardener can grow plants of many colours and shapes.

Maybe a house of leaves is a compost heap of stuff grabbed from everywhere and mixed together to feed ideas. Like plants.

I have a feeling the plant thing is sounding crap.

Yep. Thought so. :(

[fearful_syzygy]

Did you know that the plural noun for hedgehogs is "an array"?
Hilarious."Oh look: an array of hedgehogs!"almost as funny as "a horde of hamsters". :D

[fatwoul]

Did you know that the plural noun for hedgehogs is "an array"?
Hilarious.

That is hilarious. It's also fantastic. Maybe they use ridiculous plural nouns for things that are never seen in groups anyway. I've never seen enough hedgehogs in one place to warrant the need for an exclamation as to the size of their array.

Or maybe its just because they are spikey like aerials, which when grouped also form an array.

[MixBlender]

Hey. Sort of new here, and Im finishing the book for the second time, and (not sure if someone mentioned it or not), I noticed a few things.

Like I was reading from other members, the caught on to the poem in the appendix (I believe). But I havn't heard anyone talk about the yggdrasil at the back of the book (or i didnt notice).

As a lot of you most likely know. Yddrasil in Norse Mythology, was the World Tree. Its roots branched down to the depths of the earth, expanding infinately, while its branches reached the sky infinately also.

As well in Norse Mythology, it mentions, that aside from Odin Hanging himself on the tree for 7 days with a spear in him with no food or water and surviving from some sort of mericle. The yggdrasil is also the home of Lif and Lifthrasir. the 2 only survivors of the apocolypse, or Ragnorock.

In comparison to the Navidson Record, I feel its a comparison between the inside of this great tree with no beginning and no end. A modern Archetype of an old mythological symbol. Where House of Leaves, is the Yggdrasil - a tree in its entirety

but a theory is a theory, right?

to clarify, because i know im bad at explaining myself. heres a rough example of the yggdrasil

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b9/Yggdrasil.jpg

now if you can, instead of a huge tree in the middle, immagine a small house in Virginia

Going past bologna36's very compelling double medium theory for the book, my idea of the house actually seems to make sense only within the story of the Navidson record on a more practical level (if you call a mythological tree practical) where as bologna36's theory seems to provide a solid reasoning for both stories exsisting together within the book as a whole

[Ellimist]

MixBlender, you mean something like this?

http://img96.exs.cx/img96/9378/ygghouse1.jpg

Anyway, if you do a search (http://houseofleaves.com/forums/search.php) for "Yggdrasil" you will find a plethora of discussions about it, which I am sure will stimulate you for hours on end. And then you can add to them. Have fun!

[fatwoul]

...Yddrasil in Norse Mythology, was the World Tree...

...now if you can, instead of a huge tree in the middle, immagine a small <font color="#0000FF">House</font> in Virginia...

"...Hello Domino's? OK good, I'd like to order a pizza. Just cheese and tomato. Yes. But with no cheese or tomato. Or bread. Or anything else that makes a pizza. What? Oh right, yes, I am asking for a pizza containing no pizza. You're going to send me an empty box? You were being sarcastic about the empty box? You want me to go fuck myself? Hello? HELLO?!!..."

A tree without a tree isn't a tree. It's just a big pile of stupid.

[fearful_syzygy]

Like I was reading from other members, the caught on to the poem in the appendix (I believe). But I havn't heard anyone talk about the yggdrasil at the back of the book (or i didnt notice).

Ten points for reading around before posting. :)
However, you may have noticed that this thread is called "About the title" and not "About Yggdrasil" or "Norse Mythology" or something along those lines, so unfortunately you lose those points for posting in the wrong thread. Too bad. :(
Don't be discouraged.

Better luck next time.

[zerokewl155]

I totally agree. One of the tenets of postmodernism is the fragmented narrative. According to Peter Barry's "Beginning Theory" (a great book for those recently introducted to the world of literary criticism) postmodernism constitues a celebration of the eclectic, or of fragmentation, a response to the modernists who lamented over the loss of meaning.

Thus, the fact that this title leaves (no pun intended) itself open to so much interpretation fits perfectly in this genre. My only qualm is that someone earlier mentioned that only MZD knows the true meaning himself, but I beg to differ. A true postmodernist author would recognize this type of fragmentation and celebrate in its various interpretation. My theory on this comes from extensive reading of David Foster Wallace (everyone should read "Infinite Jest") and also my creative writing professor constantly asking me the 'true' nature of the characters in my story, but I never know them myself. Could be a function of poor writing or merely a dedication to postmodernism.

[g@rp]

House of leaves = Safe Love House :shock:

[Ze Do Caixao]

Hi. I'm posting this on this topic since it relates to the leaves of the title.
I have recently read The Figure of Echo by John Hollander (which is quoted by Zampanò in the Echo chapter). I know that some have already talked about this book elsewhere on the forum, but I think no one talked about the leaves. Hollander says, after quoting Milton's Paradise Lost :

«'he stood and call'd
His Legions, Angel Forms, who lay intrans't
Thick as Autumnal Leaves that strow the Brooks
In Vallombrosa, where th' Etrurian shades
High overarch't imbow'r... ' (lines 300-4)

The fallen leaves, themselves full of Homeric, Virgilian, and Dantesque associations, bring together tropes of death multitudinousness, falling and scattered generational and Sybilline leaves, and so forth. By the time the image has moved through Sheley's "yellow, and black, and pale, and hectic red, / Pestilence-stricken multitudes," through the echoing line in Hardy's "During Wind and Rain" ("How the sick leaves reel down in throngs!"), to Allen Tate's refrain in the "Ode for the Confederate Dead," the problem is almost that of a topos.

Certainly, as Harold Bloom has shown, the turning of the leaves in the wind in Stevens' "Domination of Black" is an allusive and transumptive (in the senses he has given to the word) image; it has added Whitman's leaves = blades + pages (as Stevens adopts the 'of' of Whitman's title - 'about' and 'composed of' - in so many of his ambiguous genitive constructions). The 'turning' is of pages, as well as of autumnal coloring, and the Sybilline componentof the trope becomes reconstituded through the presence of Whitman. (It is even possible that the suppression of all mention of black in the poem itself may be related to a suppression of any trace of the "black leaves wheeling in the wind" from Oscar Wilde' immensely corny "The Harlot's House.") For Stevens, the image of the leaves, revising itself in the firelight of imagination, is like "the leaves themselves, / Turning in the wind." Like songbirds that stand formore than the natural noise they produce, summing up over the range of nightingales and skylarks behind them (e.g., Hardy's thrush), the trope of the leaves is metaleptic, rather than merely metaphoric. Its allusiveness has been brought into the range of its subject. It is almost as if for us, now, the image 'means', among other things: "Even as leaves turn color and die, and the Sybil's scattered leaves are reconstituted metaphorically in all our own writings - whoever we are, and whenever we write - even as men fall like leaves, and become mulch for new generations, even as the leaves of the book of life turn, so does the very image of fallen leaves present itself for revision."»

Sorry for the length, but I particularly appreciate the definition Hollander gives of the word 'leaves'.

[fearful_syzygy]

Nice.

Sorry, this has almost nothing to do with it, but the combination of mulch and Whitman reminded me of this (http://www.houseofleaves.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1362), which surely has to be one of the most absurdly random first posts ever. :D
(Until you realise it's probably just Ghent being a dickhead). :|

[Ze Do Caixao]

Yes, Ghent must put some weird substances in his coffee :)

On the matter of Whitman, I never quite understood the way 'Leaves of Grass' connects to 'House of Leaves' except by the leaves of the title or the thin thread of the poems in the appendix (or the fact that both books are a monument that took years to compose.) And even though I can easily imagine the title of HoL as a "House 'composed of' Leaves" ("...seems a house of leaves / moments before the wind." at page 563), I don't know how we could interpret the title as a "House 'about' Leaves". Books, texts are 'about' something, but a house ? Even if this
house seems to do a lot of things, how could it talk about leaves ?

I also like the "turning in the wind" part. Now, I did search the forum for someone who might have talked of the wind in HoL and, in the 155 posts that the search engine gave me for 'wind', I found nothing interesting (sorry if there is actually something, I didn't have the courage of reading it all thoroughly). The fact is that wind is a recurring subject in HoL. The word does appear quite often (and it's not even in the index!) from the strange incantation of Johnny at page 327 ("Come here at long last to summon the wind") to the etymology of 'window' given at page 464 ("An eye on the wind", 'window' coming from the Old Norse 'vindauga' from 'vindr', wind, and 'auga', eye) for example.

It becomes interesting when you consider the many meanings of the word 'wind'. The Merriam-Webster's Dictionary gives those defintions :
1a : a natural movement of air of any velocity [the most common meaning]
2a : a destructive force or influence
3a : BREATH
6 : something that is insubstancial: as
a: mere talk : idle words
b: NOTHING, NOTHINGNESS
7b : slight information esp. about something secret : INTIMATION
9a : a direction from which the wind may blow : a point of the compass; esp. : one of the cardinal points

Consider also the definitions of the verb 'to wind' :
vt
1a : WEAVE
b : ENTANGLE, INVOLVE
c : to introduve sinuously or stealthily
2b : to turn completely or repeatedly about an object : COIL, TWINE
3a : to cause to move in a curving line or path
b archaic : to turn the course of; esp. : to lead (a person) as one wishes
d : to traverse on a curving course

vi
1 : BEND, WARP
2a : to have a bending course or shape : extend in curves
3 : to move so as o encircle something

I kept only the definitions that are interesting for the interpretation of HoL. Do I need to comment the labyrinthine character of the verb 'to wind' ? And the noun can also mean something like 'rumor' in a fantomatic kind of way, like the words Johnny can't get out of his head ("Known some call is air am", for example, which he only 'hears' - phonetically- and cannot recognize as 'non sum qualis eram') or the ghost he encountered who was only the words of a girl that were reflected by the room (p. 129). Could words like that be "a destructive force or influence" or "a point of the compass" (that could answer to the K sign : "indicate direction to proceed") ? And what about the 'breath' in the biblical sense of the word (the Verb) ? Or merely the 'nothingness' which is quite 'present' in Navidson's house ?

I don't assert anything, I just open some trails. Sorry again for the length and for the fact that I don't talk anymore of the title but of a lot of things that were already discussed elsewhere...

[sexyballoonchief]

Another possible explanation is that the book is built up of leaves of paper, and the complexity and architectural structure of it makes the book itself a <font color="blue"><font color="#0000FF">House</font></font>.

the book is the house.

[fearful_syzygy]

Good to know.

[Ellimist]

the book is the <font color="#0000FF">House</font>.
Welcome to the forums.

Look at the links in my signature.

Don't get lost.

Or do, if you want.

Either way, that was probably one of the least informative or interesting first posts I have seen.

Would you care to expand?

[zakalwe]

Would you care to expand?

God no, I'm trying to get trim for christmas.

[Ellimist]

Would you care to expand?

God no, I'm trying to get trim for christmas.
... :roll:

[sexyballoonchief]

well, ive actually been reading through the forums for a while now and come to grips with all the info. great forum, but i never really had a lot of input really. i read this topic and just thought id throw my two cents in.

the post that i quoted mentioned leaves of paper, so in my eyes, the house is symbolic of the house in the story, and a house is only an object when it comes right down to it. the book itself is a house, made of leaves of paper. it brings back memories, ideas, emotions... isnt that what your own house does, or the place you call home?

the book is the house and the house is the book. i think that can incorporate any meaning you wish to believe.

and thanks for the welcome ^^

[sutrix]

the book is the <font color="#0000FF">House</font> and the <font color="#0000FF">House</font> is the book. i think that can incorporate any meaning you wish to believe.

Shit happens cause shit happens. I think that can incorporate any meaning you wish to believe.

Really, you've read around, as you say, and you still think those kind of gross generalizations and comparisons haven't been made (and balked upon, discussed, strangled upside down, argued, flamed etc) before?

Here's a few for you (may or may not be true): Pelafina was Zampano's wife! Johnny T is Pelafina's son! Lude is also a drug! Bambi is a cartoon character! Bunnies explode! Squirrel's talk! Yggdrasil is a tree! House is in blue because shit happens!

Way to go!

Welcome.

[katatonic]

You should work on your sarcasm.

[zakalwe]

Yes, I actually want to hear more. Especially if you are an actual Sexy Balloon Chief. How's that working out for you?

[fearful_syzygy]

Miscellaneous histrionics
Calm the fuck down, sutrix, what's wrong with you?

Yes, sbc, the house is the book, in more ways than one.

[sutrix]

Aw, I was just messin' around. ;)

[sexyballoonchief]

no harm done. my generalizations were simply to provide something everyone could relate to and make there own (also very general)... im not a real specific person as u can tell

and being a sexy balloon chief is working out fantasticly.

[zakalwe]

and being a sexy balloon chief is working out fantasticly.

Glad to hear it.

[Chuie41]

Here's something I haven't seen anyone bring up yet. Maybe a bit out there, but I find it fun nonetheless.

So Pelafina's last name is Lievre, and is at one point typoed as livre, which is obviously french for 'book.' either spelling, the name would be pronounced similarly. and that pronounciation would be close to "leave/leaf"

from this, we can get a House of Lievre, similar to the idea of the House of Atreus, etc., turning the book into family tree (yggdrasill) and history of the Lievre family. The classical implicationa include that this history is dramitic (literally, as in a play), tragic, and self-consuming.

Just one more pathway to take...

[fearful_syzygy]

Hi there. I take it you haven't seen this thread (http://houseofleaves.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1859) then?