Is this REAL or something we all believe?

[Guntana]

Are we to take this book as a creation of the three authors [Zampano, Johnny Truant, Mark Danielewski] or is it a truth in the mind of all three?

[nd9743]

or do you think that they are all the same person? it could be that they are different people trying to piece something together but it could also be the work of an ingenious author
i do believe that this is all true, personally.the work of two or three authors

[Sintina]

Heck, I dunno! But it's a lot of fun trying to figure it out!!

(I just think Mark is a genius author who made it all up).

[driley]

While I think Mark was (and is) influenced by a large number of people and experiences, the House of Leaves is entirely has work. Of course much of the bibliographies are real, but many are as fictitious as the story line. One could work a lifetime trying to separate fact from fiction in this brilliant work. However, it's listed as TOTAL fiction and is attributed to one author: Mark Z. Danielewski. Anyone know what the "Z" stands for? Zampano, maybe? <grin>.

[reggyneo4]

Ok I could just be REALLY ignorant but is Johnny and Mark the same person? I get a lil confused there anyone care to help?

[Ardis_21]

I do believe that Zampano and Johnny Truant are fictional in that they don't really exist outside of Mark Z., but in the story I take Johnny, Will, and Zampano all to be, among many other symbolic things, Mark Z. himself. Johnny found Zampano's notes, like Mark (and Poe) found the tapes of his dad. Will became obsessed with this house, this little indescrepancy, as I would imagine Mark did with what he found (from what I gather, his psychological searching for reason in the events of his childhood; trying to work it out), and Zampano, the one who did not cope with it, he simply allowed the madness to be his life. The Zampano thing may be stretching it a bit, but in the sense that this whole project was Mark's way of coping with it all (quote, "Not for you"), Zampano could have represented the possibility that he faced if he had chosen not to deal with his past.

[kimlan]

Ya'll left someone out, Navidson. Some theories suggest that Zampano is Navidson, so Navidson is part of the equation of who's who. And then there's johnny and navidson, both found someone at the end, (karen and johnny's mother; similairity exist here as well), johnny leave to go find the house while navidson leaves to go find what's in the house.....this list can be endless.

[Tempast33]

is the term birds of paradise common usage? it appears both in Truant's story and Tom's. i've always heard Tropical birds used to describe them maybe i'm missing somthing and maybe i should get some sleep
and yes this does have something to do w/ the topic of the post, if you can connect what you'd prolly be able to answer my query better

[drone]

Zampano also uses the term "bird of paradise", on page 531. Okay, he's talking about shadow-puppets and Tom's story at the time, but as far as I remember Tom never actually makes a bird of paradise shadow.
As an aside, does anyone remember the bit where Johnny remarks that he feels like Zampano's notes are creating him, and if he stopped reading he'd cease to exist?

[Tempast33]

drone
i just got to that part about ceasing to exist tonight. i love how this book pokes at the 4th wall. and as we sit here and deduce we find ourselves getting stuch back and forth and inbetwix its clutches. and i just had another thought but it doesn't realy belong in this post.

[jennifer may]

I'm not sure if i would class the saying "birds of paradise" as one of common usage.
But yes, I've heard it before.
Normally used to describe something exotic, fanciful, colourful etc.

[rustycat]

when I am reading house of leaves I constantly have to remind myself that this is not real. I want to believe Johnny is real and zampano is real...

[cloudsurfer]

Not quite sure what you are getting at drone, you think you could offer a little more light to the comment? I ahve read throught the book twice now, but there is always more to be gleamed from this book.

[drone]

Certainly. The chapter headings were (allegedly) suggested by Zampano, before Johnny came across the notes. Therefore in Z's version of the book, it goes straight from "the name of the processing lab" (chapter XX in our version) to "XXI: truth transcends the telling". Now look at old man Z's list of chapters. No?

[drone]

Have a look on p540, Zampano's suggested chapter titles. Notice anything odd?

[frozentruth]

I always thought Zampano and Navidson represented Mark's father.... Zampano's papers were like what he and Poe found before they made their masterpieces... Navidson's life and career greatly mirrored that of Mark's own father....

[Magnetic84]

I'm not entirely sure about the Mark-Zampano -Navdison completely, but it seems to me that Karen and Johnny's Mother are one in the same. On page 58, Posah talks about how Karen practiced her smile perfectly for a year when karen was 14. "composing that smile in front of a blue plastic handled mirror." (58)Then in the Whalestoe Letters, the April 5, 1968 letter, Johnny's mother ends with "Practicing my smile in a mirror, the way I did when I was a child" Anyone else find this just a tad interesting?

[Tempast33]

MDZ says of HOL its a

"three character play: a blind old man, a young man, and a very special, extraordinarily gifted woman."

does this support Karen Mom idea or am i just reaching?

[Magnetic84]

Mark says that it's a three character play. But he didn't mention how many incarnations these characters have throughout the play(or HOL).

[Gertie]

Birds of paradise are also plants. In california there is a plant called bird of paradise. It has long thin stiff leaves and flowers that look like tropical birds heads with a beack, a face (if birds have faces), and feathers sticking out of the top of it's head. In a gathering or row I haven't seen them in a while so I can't be sure on that one part thought I would share.

[monkey]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joe:
MDZ says of HOL its a

"three character play: a blind old man, a young man, and a very special, extraordinarily gifted woman."

does this support Karen Mom idea or am i just reaching?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Do you see Karen as being "extraordinarily gifted"? I see that in Pelefina, but not in Karen. Please let me know if I've missed it.

Don't get me wrong: I believe the theory is quite valid. The two women have a lot of trauma, drama, and dependency in common, as well as the smile practicing they both did at age fourteen. But I don't see this quote as additional evidence.

[SouthyPar]

Note that Poe also recognizes that "The voices were three". Maybe we should take count of all the charachters and their real life incarnations?

IMHO, Johnny is, or at least symbolizes MZD, or according to MZD's interview with his publisher, represents Mark the way he was some time ago.

Second, no one is challanging the concept that Navidson is TZD, right?

[pomopoet]

Hey all, I'm new to this forum, I just finished HOL last night, and I had a few theories of my own.

In the Appendix there's a letter written by Zampano in french. In the letter he mentions losing a wife, a son, and a daughter. That reinforced the idea for me that Zampano and Navidson are the same person. Navidson loses the sight of one eye and the ability of one leg in his final foray into the house, and Zampano was blind and crippled, right?

I have to say, though, I was a little disappointed by the ending. The ultimate message seemed to be that reinforcing the 50's traditional family structure (Karen sacrifices herself to save Navidson, then they get married, the house normalizes itself). It was a bit of a let down for such an intense book. It's like, "Oh, you mean if the nuclear family structure reasserts itself, all this horror will be over?" The idea is that the house is a projection of a dysfunctional family (unmarried parents, estranged father) that disappears with familial happiness. Maybe that's wrong, I don't know, that's the opinion from a post-feminist. And I am easily let down by endings. And it certainly is brilliant in its complexity, not only in the story but in the creation of an entire body of "criticism," all invented, surrounding an invented video documentary. Postmodernism at its finest.

[monkey]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nora Fussner:
I have to say, though, I was a little disappointed by the ending... It's like, "Oh, you mean if the nuclear family structure reasserts itself, all this horror will be over?"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You may be satisfied with some of the other discussions that, noting the distinct change in tone and punch of the chapters detailing this ending, have theorized that this ending is false: that the film (whether real or imagined) finds its true ending with the Yale color processing logo and the assumed death of Navidson, and that Johnny tacked on a new ending rather than accept the death. It's not at all uncommon for children with divorced/dead/otherwise missing parents to fantasize about how much better everything would be if only... I don't see much about Karen that shouldn't offend the feminist in you, but for what it's worth, I suspect this ending might rightly be interpreted as nothing more than wishful thinking.

[Aloysius]

The phrase "birds of paradise" is also the more common name for the flower "strelitzia" (not sure of the exact spelling) which gets its name from the fact that it looks like a tropical bird.
is this of any help to anyone as it makes sense in reference to the punk joke made on page 256. The flower has several tall brightly coloured petals that stick up like the hair of a punk. (although the guy is obviously not actually referring to the plant literally!)

[TRUANTAMOUR]

Alright....I'm sure this is old news to most...but I really wanted a way to release everything dwelling inside my head after finishing the book last night.
Whether this is a reflection of the life of Mark D., I can't be sure...I really don't have that much background knowledge of him (other than the fact that his family is full of genius artists...ie.-POE)
My take on the book...although I have more than one theory, is that Will Navidson and family, as well as Zampano and his work, never really existed(taking into account that this is a fictional book) To me, the whole stroy line is derived from the depths of Johnny Truant's insanity. I find many connections with the characters...(Karen and Johnny's mother, Johnny and Will) Johnny is on a journey to release the pain of his past. To release the monster that's always been within. When he goes in search of the house....he's really in search of his childhood house. Trying to put some sort of conclusion to all of this madness. I believe that Johnny finds peace through a character in his head...Will Navidson. When Will and Karen finally re-unite, peace follows....This peace is that Johnny finally remembers tender moments with his mother...so in a sense, they re-unite. Anyway, I could ramble on and on, but I think you get the jist.

-Amanda