Index fun

[ClockworkGrue]

The first page number listed for "Minotaur (red)" is 4. Has anybody actually been able to find a reference to the minotaur on that page?

Also, I noticed that a few of the words that are listed DNE (Does Not Exist, I'm guessing) actually _do_ exist, sort of . . . In the encoded letter from Johnny's mom, a few of the words actually appear (custodian, for example).

Clues to more hidden stuff, or do I need to go re-read the passage on riddles again?

walk slow
CwG

[demo]

i have looked through the index several times, i even recorded the list of DNE words to see if they all had some similarity or significance... so far i really can't figure it... some seem nonsense.. others though seem of interest... the ones that interested me though were the foreign words... such as degueulasse -- which means disgusting or spew
immelmann-- which sounds german, but i am uncertain,
mal de mer -- which is sea sickness ( i was relating this to zampano's poems)
mal de mere -- mere means mother (of animals)but if it is not idyosincratic... it could translate to mother sickness or sick of mother... i am uncertain.

demo

[kanegs]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by demo:
immelmann-- which sounds german, but i am uncertain,
demo<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
An immelman is a maneuver used by fighter aircraft. It's a half loop followed by a half roll (Climb until your upside-down and flying in the opposite direction, then roll until your rightside-up).

There was a German WWI fighter ace named Max Immelman, but he did not invent (or employ) it. It may have been developed by the British to counter German flying tactics. Max was killed in action when his synchronizer failed and his machinegun destroyed his propeller.

[kanegs]

First reference to .357 is p357. But it isn't there.

[Tempast33]

You know enough people read this board that we could split up the index and all do an detailed study of a certian part of it to see what we could find??
i'm not sure how but i think it would work

[MicheleVR5]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
First reference to .357 is p357. But it isn't there.

For the third reference I didn't see a .357 either, but footnote 357 is on that page. Guess just the number's relevant. Weird though...

[drone]

Here's another DNE word: p546, "defend a stray's hun", which Z boasts about never using.
Defend a stray's hun
De-fenda-strayshun
Defenestration (to throw something out of a window). I'm guessing that was just put in out of whimsy though.

[Plechazunga]

Let's not forget the first word of the index: "abandon". Fairly straight forward.

But the last is "zoom". Takes a bit of HOL-arm-twisting to make sense of that one. Best I can do is that you can "zoom" in and out of the levels of narrators: JT, Z, and P. IOW, there are different levels of reality (which has a bunch of index listings) in the book that you can zoom in and out of. Yeah, I said it was a stretch, didn't I?

[hello?]

I found dolphin (DNE) twice in the book. But, uh, anyway...

[albuhtross]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ClockworkGrue:
The first page number listed for "Minotaur (red)" is 4. Has anybody actually been able to find a reference to the minotaur on that page?
CwG<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Minotaur, while not on page 4, is on page iv, in the Note on this Edition section. I seem to remember a post about the number of pages in HOL, and how they sometimes only seemed to add up right when page "i" was counted as page "1"

[hello?]

a similar error(?) with Clara English. I think it says she's on page 12, but it's really xii.

[claro]

Regarding DNE: of course the meaning is possibly Does Not Exist, but it could also mean END backwards. Any theory?

[Aeonflux]

I always wondered if by chance, the book BACKWARDS had some secret code to it. It was once metioned that no Pelfina codes start until after the chackmark on page 97. But that isn't tru... there is a code in the footnotes that spells out Mark Z Danielewski which I think is weird. anyways. what is there are more codes in the footnotes? (Marks name appears aound footnote 27 or 28 i think)

[Jaycee]

Plechazunga:


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
But the last is "zoom". Takes a bit of HOL-arm-twisting to make sense of that one. Best I can do is that you can "zoom" in and out of the levels of narrators: JT, Z, and P. IOW, there are different levels of reality (which has a bunch of index listings) in the book that you can zoom in and out of.

Well Navidson was a photographer, so the reference to 'zoom' could be to do with the zoom on a camera lens? just a thought.

[fatwoul]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by James Charlick:
Well Navidson was a photographer, so the reference to 'zoom' could be to do with the zoom on a camera lens? just a thought.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

no self respecting photojournalist ever uses zoom lenses. they always have two or three cameras round their neck, each with one of their favourite prime lenses on.
having said that, the photographic connection to the book remains, and is concreted with the help of buzz words like zoom.

[Lillie]

I used the search engine (It's OKAY to resurrect old discussions, it's even better than repetitions) and here, I knew this was discussed before so check out this link as well for extra reading.
http://www.houseofleaves.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000385

there are some pretty cool theories in there about how words Pelafina use turn DNE in the index.

[FallingQuarters]

did not explaine

[Lillie]

Infanticide is DNE but it's on 552 scribbled in top right.

And Diner does exist but not really, two pieces of paper are placed together to form diner in page 582.

I swear I saw hippo... somewhere.

Another cool thing I stumbled upon. if you check 'blue' and 'red' in the index they refer you to page iv, which should be the page before the contents, which reaffirm the fact that the Mysterious Editors somehow know MZD. Lol.

[Rubble]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
I swear I saw hippo... somewhere

On pg 615, hippo is kind of there, but it's another cheat. It's when pelafina says It's Hippocratic blasphemy. Was that the place you saw the hippo, Lillie?

[Lillie]

No I think it was in plural, hippos, which probably doesn't qualify to be indexed, who knows.

I think it was among the list of ridiculous shadow puppets.

[fatwoul]

I spent the last week away from the board (hence I have not had a headache for several days - I am sure it will return soon).

During that time, I have been studying the words in the index. I have noticed several apparent errors in the index of my UK/Eire edition. For example, several references of the word pantheon are wrong, since the UK/Eire edition was distributed by Anchor, and all mention of the Pantheon publishing house (be it a parent company of Anchor or not) have been removed from the inside leaves. However, these changes have not been addressed in the index, which I found disappointing.

I have also been examining the relevance of the use of capital letters for some words in the index. I have gone through Johnny's introduction and underlined all the words on each page that are from the index, and then written them out in order. My hope was that iw would spell something but I came up with nothing. I have also tried writing down the discrepancies in capital letters between the index and the introduction, again in the hope of forming a word, a bit like Whalestoe Letter May 8 1987. Yet again, I found nothing.

I just thought I would throw that in, although I am sure its already been tried before. I have it on good authority that there is a narrative hidden within the index, and I am becoming Hell-bent on finding it.

[Prime]

I read a short story once about WWII and how the nazis cracked every code that came across the airwaves. Eventualy someone used a very simple code used by children to pass notes to each other. In thier efforts trying to find patterns and complicated codes, they totaly overlooked the simplicity of the code.. I guess what im trying to say here.. is maybe, if there's anything there, we're overlooking it because we're expecting something else. Perhaps the hidden messages are easy to find and we're just overthinking.. Perhaps im crazy..

[FallingQuarters]

novel, iv, 40, 140

[hello?]

Or maybe what you're really saying is that we need to resurrect Nazis to crack the HoL code?

[kbremer]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rubble:


On pg 615, hippo is kind of there, but it's another cheat. It's when pelafina says It's Hippocratic blasphemy. Was that the place you saw the hippo, Lillie?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

aren't whales supposed to have evolved from prehistoric hippos? that's why they still have toe bones in their fins . . . or perhaps i'm mis-remembering highschool bio

[malakite]

heres a thought that struck me in the back of the head like an icy-cold 2x4. what if the codes backwards are a letter. a letter from MZD. with the first(or in the case of going backwards, last) code being MZD's name or signature. the coded letter can't be counted because it is not hidden in the book. it is explained and is simply a way of continuing pela's communnication w/johnny. i don't know. just a thought. i don't think we have all the codes, yet, so thus, we don't have whole letter.

im tired. is any of this making sense?

[billypilgrim]

I don't see "novel" on pg. 140.

[FallingQuarters]

The Great American Novel

[billypilgrim]

wow...that makes a lot of sense. thank you FQ!

[David J Draines, MD]

deracinate:
1. To pull out by the roots; uproot.
2. To displace from one's native or accustomed environment.

the index says that this word is on pages xiv and 145. It is only on page 145. however, page xiv is when Lude and Johnny go to Zampano's apartment and of consequently find the NR. As we all know, Johnny, in a way, is deracinated by the NR. This is the only explanation I can think of for why the index says "deracinate" is on pg. xiv. has anybody else found situations like this with other index words?

[lazysmurff]

"deracenated" is on xvi...but is not in the index. very very weird as "deracenate" is in the index as on the page before but isnt. any thoughts? im thinkin that maybe a qord could be listed in the index as being on a certain page, but its not there, but on the next page a variation of that word appears. as an example take the totally random word "speaker". the index says its on page 100 (im making all this up as an example) but its not. but "speakers" is on page 101. maybe there is some meaning to that? maybe im loopy?

[David J Draines, MD]

excellent, lazysmurff. i didn't notice that. could it be that some of the number crypticism comes into play here? perhaps falling quarters could provide some ambiguity on this subject?

[borneel]

By the way, if any are not too sure yet about DNE, in the Dutch version it says 'BN', an abbreviation of 'bestaat niet' which is, indeed 'Does Not Exist'.

[LSama]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David J Draines, MD:
deracinate:
1. To pull out by the roots; uproot.
2. To displace from one's native or accustomed environment.

the index says that this word is on pages xiv and 145. It is only on page 145. however, page xiv is when Lude and Johnny go to Zampano's apartment and of consequently find the NR. As we all know, Johnny, in a way, is deracinated by the NR. This is the only explanation I can think of for why the index says "deracinate" is on pg. xiv. has anybody else found situations like this with other index words?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There was mention of this question having something to do with the numbers on the pages, as opposed to the actual words. If you look, 145 is fourteen five. Now, if you take "xiv", you have, yes, Fourteen. And the "v", in Roman number is, indeed, five. Thus, fourteen five. Maybe the listing of "decinerate" being on pages 415 and "xiv" is basically stating the same page, simply twice.

...Or, of course, I could just be reading into it wrong.

[starblight]

words in the index that can be found on pg. 97 (i checked only some,)

lower case used for words that gave #-# reference (for example, 97-99 or 95-99 or 95-97, all are uncaps.):

Again, all, and, Arriflex, base, Bottom, Colour, Cord, Dictionary, English, Equipment, exploration, Frame, Great Hall (capped in index), Hall, Hear, house, in, into, Line, little, living, machine, man, Mark, Microscope, never, noise, nothing, old, out, over, Oxford, progress, radio, Reston, room, Rope, Sample, Sea, second, see, 7298, Signal, 16mm, steel, structure, tape, team, Three, time, VHS, Voice, wheelchair, white, you

[prelinger]

'Escher' is not listed in the index, although he is mentioned several times in the text. Johnny provided a mini-index entry for that in one of his footnotes, though (pg 113, footnote 133). Not really sure how much relevance that has (sorry), but i felt like mentioning it.

[ December 14, 2002: Message edited by: prelinger ]

[Stencil]

While hippo doesn't appear in HOL, its French equivilent does. Hippo means 'horse' in Greek (if I remember rightly)and a horse features quite strongly in 'La Feuilles'.

[ February 10, 2003: Message edited by: Stencil ]

[sleepoverjesus]

Okay, I'm gonna probably sound like such the retard here, but what does "Ibid" mean?

[Stencil]

'Ibid' is Latin for something I can't remember, but it's function is to tell the reader the writer is referring to the book listed in the previous footnote. E.g:
1. House of Leaves, p20
2. Ibid., p334.

[sleepoverjesus]

Thanks...

[Crilius]

Hello, all. A recent discoverer of the book, here. Seems I've only scratched the surface!

Reviving the index search: In two cases, the word "House" (blue) is omitted from the index: pp 20 & 498. "Hause" (blue) p 26 is also unindexed. All mentions of "house" in appendices II and III are unlisted, but this could be explained as these were unoriginal portions to the book. It seems odd that the words would be given the attention to color them blue, yet forgotten from the index, don't you agree?

[verismo]

I know this is a stretch...but, to a guy who had the family job of changing the reels on the family film projector nightly...this might actually mean something.

HERE (http://www.adorama.com/LMDNE.html)

[Calibos]

After reading all of these and reading through the thread that Lillie posted, I have come to this following conclusion:

All of the words that are listed as DNE are not meant for us as readers. If you take the idead that GARP had on this other thread (http://http://www.houseofleaves.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000385&p=3),

INDEX-DNE=IX

and look on page IX (it's not numbered, but if you go to page XI and go back two pages...), it says 'this is not for you'.

So all of these things probably do have some code or hidden meanings that were meant to be understood by johnny and hisn mother.

I also this that the fact that there's 97 of these words and page 97 starts the SOS stuff is Pelafina asking for help. At first she may be asking for help from Johnny, it seems very obvious that she is, but I think the capital letter code on page 621 means that she is not looking for help from Johnny (no trace in the crowd, OR not race in the cloud) but from her dead husband (a face n a cloud).

[Stencil]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by verismo:
I know this is a stretch...but, to a guy who had the family job of changing the reels on the family film projector nightly...this might actually mean something.

HERE (http://www.adorama.com/LMDNE.html)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you might be on to something there verismo, especially since it's a lamp (light being so important to HoL and everything) but what? Perhaps a connection to Danielewski's hint that the word "house" being in blue is connected to film?

I don't know.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Calibos:
. . and look on page IX (it's not numbered, but if you go to page XI and go back two pages...), it says 'this is not for you'.

So all of these things probably do have some code or hidden meanings that were meant to be understood by johnny and hisn mother.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, this makes a lot of sense.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Calibos:
I also this that the fact that there's 97 of these words and page 97 starts the SOS stuff is Pelafina asking for help.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But aren't there 98 DNE words?

[heartbreak]

First reference to .357 is p357. But it isn't there.

Nothing major. Was just going through some old threads and this caught my eye, wanted to check it out. Page 357 is actually the first instance of 357 in the book. The number does not appear anywhere else until that page number.